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Tuur

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1

Donnerstag, 8. März 2012, 12:40

the NEW iPad

Hi all,

i was wondering what would be the way to go for the new iPad because of it's resolution and the difference between ipad 2 and the new one.
Should we just make the cubetiles 2048? And does the ipad 2 downscale that by it self?
Or should we go even bigger than that...

Any info appreciated!

Tuur *thumbsup*
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2

Donnerstag, 8. März 2012, 12:49

Hi Tuur *smile*

I don´t think that the iPad2 will downscale any images, but the iPad 3 will upscale them, as far as I read. So I´d say it would be best to stick to the resolution used for iPad 1 and 2, until Klaus build in a way to determine if the used device is an iPad3 or not. Maybe we can do that by ourselfs if we just write a if-function checking for the resolution:

IF width GT 1024 use whatever....

Do you get the new iPad3? I will, because I skipped the 2nd-generation and I think it´s time to upgrade *g*

Best regards
Nupsi

Tuur

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3

Donnerstag, 8. März 2012, 13:14

Hi,

i think that the New iPad ( that's the name, not ipad 3) will be my first ipad ;-) still don't have one :-|

that if thing could be a solution but i prefer an index based selection like i do now.
So i can make a a dedicated xml path.
Not sure which features will be added in this new monster.


http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/12…vent/index.html


a pic outside the store that is in the keynote.
http://www.anp-photo.com/visualnews/sear…icture=17894088


Tuur *thumbsup*
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Zephyr

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Donnerstag, 8. März 2012, 14:09

I'm probally selling my Ipad 2, and buy the new one too. I'm alsoo curious about the performance, since the resolution is 4-5x bigger then the current ipad 2. Although the graphic engine and processor are better. I'd guess it will even out, and perform the same.
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5

Donnerstag, 8. März 2012, 14:26

So what you will call the iPad 4, Tuur, the new-new iPad? *g* I' m just to lazy to call it the New iPad or iPad 3rd Generation *tongue*

I guess I'll keep my iPad1 to make sure that my upcoming tours are still compatible with older devices. I'm still looking for an older iPhone 3G btw ;-)

Best regards
Nupsi

Tuur

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6

Donnerstag, 8. März 2012, 14:32

I think apple decides what the name will be for the next iPad (ipad4).
This one is called: the New iPad

I prefer to go forward and not stick to much on the old stuff.
Offcourse it is good to check if it is all compatible... but not with my commodore 64 *g*
We'll see

I like to focus this treath on the resolution thing and krpano, and seperate devices by index according to the New iPad.

Tuur *thumbsup*
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7

Freitag, 9. März 2012, 09:08

Hi,

it's difficult to say what cube sizes will work stable on the iPad3 without real testing...

I'm will of course try to get one as quick as possible (the selling of it starts on 23.3. here in Austria), but I will already add some experimental settings in the next release (which is almost ready and should be released very soon), which will allow to change some settings regarding the maximum cube size and what images (tablet or desktop or multires level) should be used on the iPad3, then everyone with an iPad3 can test himself in the meantime, until there are reliable and stable test results which then can be used automatically by new viewer versions,

best regards,
Klaus

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Freitag, 9. März 2012, 10:53

*I have been wondering also how this gigantic resolution should be handled ever since the rumors about it popped up.
Until yesterday had not been able to find anyone who discussed it.

If webpages are seen as default like any other devices it would be catastrophic. 90 % of the web would be unreadable on it and our virtual tours would get buttons and popup images cut down to half size.

However it seems that the solution is that the iPad 3 will identify itself as a 1024x768 resolution just like the old ones. That means that it automatically will zoom the webpages to 200%.
IF thats how they do it we want even be able to find it in the stats as a 2048 screen resolution.

Still I am not sure how good this is for images. Images will always look soft if you zoom them 200%
For example if I zoom my webpage to 200% on my large 27" iMac the images look very soft and slightly pixelated even if I look at it from 1.5 m distance.

For cubeface sizes I guess it would be possible now to use at least 2048 pixels as it has 1 GB ram.
Even my iPad 1 can now use 1400 pixels with IOS5 as long as you do not ad videos + lots of other stuff.

Hans

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Freitag, 9. März 2012, 23:40

in the next release (which is almost ready and should be released very soon),

best regards,
Klaus
*thumbsup*

10

Montag, 12. März 2012, 10:43

Hi,
However it seems that the solution is that the iPad 3 will identify itself as a 1024x768 resolution just like the old ones. That means that it automatically will zoom the webpages to 200%.
I think too that this will happen, just like iPhone4 does,


IF thats how they do it we want even be able to find it in the stats as a 2048 screen resolution.
for stats probably the size information from the Javascript screen object will be used,
and this size don't need to be the same as the window resolution, and additionally there is the 'window.devicePixelRatio' setting for detecting the pixel size,

Still I am not sure how good this is for images. Images will always look soft if you zoom them 200%
For example if I zoom my webpage to 200% on my large 27" iMac the images look very soft and slightly pixelated even if I look at it from 1.5 m distance.
an optimized web-design for iPad3 is a topic by it's own, but a simple solution for images might be providing them in as source with a doubled size but including them with a down scaled size,

e.g. the image itself is 600x400 but in the html/css set 300x200 as size,

then the design size will be the same on all devices and iPhone4 and iPad3 can use the higher resolution of image when displaying the image,

best regards,
Klaus

11

Freitag, 16. März 2012, 15:57

Hi,

there is a new krpano release with optional settings for the iPad 3:
krpano 1.0.8.14

e.g. try using:

Quellcode

1
<display usedesktopimages="true" hardwarelimit="2048" devices="iPad+Retina" />

to let the iPad 3 use the bigger desktop images,

best regards,
Klaus

Tuur

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12

Freitag, 16. März 2012, 16:23

*thumbsup* *thumbsup* *thumbsup* *thumbsup*

Great klaus!


Cheers!
Tuur *thumbsup*
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mds

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13

Montag, 26. März 2012, 22:54

The iPad 2 panos don't look bad at all on the new iPad. I've been testing over the last week. However, the UI looks quite pixellated. Any ideas on the best way to handle plugins now?

<plugin url="" alturl="" retinaurl="" /> ?
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14

Montag, 26. März 2012, 23:10

I was thinking about using scale and design at 2-or 400%
but i could be very wrong.
Does it make sence to save at 300 dpi?
I was also wondering if buttons etc show up smaller the ipad 2...
Just ordered mine new first ipad :-)
Tuur *thumbsup*
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15

Dienstag, 27. März 2012, 03:58

Hi!
What about performance?
so big images.. tween of alpha and with children..
iPad2 has bad performance for draging feature and ather effects.

Andrey
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Dienstag, 27. März 2012, 13:35

The iPad 2 panos don't look bad at all on the new iPad. I've been testing over the last week. However, the UI looks quite pixellated. Any ideas on the best way to handle plugins now?

<plugin url="" alturl="" retinaurl="" /> ?


I think its:

Quellcode

1
2
3
4
<plugin url="" devices="retina" /> <!-- the new ipad resolution (2048x1536) size: 9.7"-->
<plugin url="" devices="mobile" /> <!-- tiny cellphone resolution (between ~480x800 and ~240x320 size: < 6" -->
<plugin url="" devices="desktop" /> <!-- between 1024 x 600 (netbook) and 1980x1024  size: 11"- 23"-->
<plugin url="" devices="tablet" /> <!-- 1024 x 600 size: 6"- 9.7" alsoo includes ipad-->
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17

Dienstag, 27. März 2012, 17:05

Hi,

Zitat

The iPad 2 panos don't look bad at all on the new iPad.
Right, the normal panos are already looking very good!

However, the UI looks quite pixellated. Any ideas on the best way to handle plugins now?
The iPad 3 has virtually the same resolution as the iPad 1 and iPad 2 but with the difference that 1 virtual pixel = 4 real pixels,
that means the layout sizes and coordinations are completely the same.

To use the higher display resolution for user interface images like <plugin> or <hotspot> images - just use images with the double resolution and scale them down by 50%.

This could be done either only just for the iPad3 or generally for all devices - on the iPad3 this will cause a 1:1 display and on iPad1, iPad2 and iPhone on downscaled/downsampled image - but everywhere with the same size.

e.g. when a normal button has a resolution of 100x50 pixels:

Quellcode

1
<plugin name="button" url="button_normal_100x50.png" ... />

and when on the iPad 3 the full screen resolution should be used, make it 200x100 large and include it that way:

Quellcode

1
<plugin name="button" url="button_retina_200x100.png" scale="0.5" ... />

This code will work for all devices, but it you want you can use two 'optimized' images - the smaller ones for iPad1-2, iPhone and the larger ones only for the iPad3:

Quellcode

1
2
<plugin name="button" url="button_normal_100x50.png" ... />
<plugin name="button" url="button_retina_200x100.png" scale="0.5" devices="iPad+Retina" ... />


I was also wondering if buttons etc show up smaller the ipad 2...
No, the layout will be exactly the same!
It's exactly like iPhone 3 and iPhone 4.


What about performance?
so big images.. tween of alpha and with children..
iPad2 has bad performance for draging feature and ather effects.
Do you have an example/link to test?
At the moment I would say the iPad 2 and iPad 3 have the same rendering performance...
And also the cpu speed (js code) is also almost the same...


Beside of that - I'm still testing/exploring the iPad 3 and trying to optimize several things for it, but here already some facts that I know about the iPad 3:
  • the size of single images is limited to 1448x1448 like on iPad 1 and iPad 2 with iOS 5.1, see here, larger single images become automatically downscaled by Safari/iOS

  • using tiles to load bigger images is possible and panos with sizes like 2048x2048 are working but not perfect and not stable,
    • not perfect means there is long loading time (but I'm already trying to improve that as much as possible) and that the Safari browser is often rebuilding/redrawing it's internal tiles which doesn't look good and slows the browser down (here I'm also already trying to improve that)
    • and not stable means that a 2048x2048 pano will let the browser sometimes crash...

  • the CSS 3D images on the iPad3 doesn't seem to benefit from the additionally RAM that the iPad has - the whole Safari browser behaves exactly like the browser on the iPad 2 (with iOS 5.1), so the iPad 2 and the iPad 3 seems to be able to load and use the same sized images (maybe the iPad 1 with iOS 5.1 too, but I haven't updated my iPad 1 yet)

So until all still testing and optimizing is ready I can't say what max. size will be usable without browser crashes - at the moment single-image 1400x1400 or tiled 1800x1800 panos are looking good and stable but I haven't tested them yet with 'full-featured' tours...
And maybe also existing 2048x2048 panos will be stable usable with some automatic internal downscaling...


If someone want to use already bigger images with the current krpano version (for all iPads with iOS 5.1) I would recommend these settings for the moment:
  • <tablet> images up to 1414x1414 (buildtabletres=1414 in the droplet config files) and...
  • <display html5rendermode="2" hardwarelimit="1414" devices="iPad+iOS5.1" />
With that setings the iPhone 4 and iPads with an older iOS version than 5.1 will automatically downscale the <tablet> images (to be stable) and on iPad 2 and iPad 3 with iOS 5.1 the full 1414x1414 resolution will be used and displayed (note - 1414 is used as max. size to avoid an automatically downscaling on older iOS versions) .

Best regards,
Klaus

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Mittwoch, 28. März 2012, 21:57

This code will work for all devices, but it you want you can use two 'optimized' images - the smaller ones for iPad1-2, iPhone and the larger ones only for the iPad3:

Source code
1
2
<plugin name="button" url="button_normal_100x50.png" ... />
<plugin name="button" url="button_retina_200x100.png" scale="0.5" devices="iPad+Retina" ... />



Ah yes, this is perfect. Designing the UI twice as big and scaling down doesn't produce nice and crisp icons & buttons, they get quite blurry to the trained eye of the UI designer ;-) . Not krpanos fault, just a fact when it comes to UI design. In order to have the UI look its best, designing both sizes is necessary.

Thanks Klaus!
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19

Donnerstag, 29. März 2012, 13:42

This code will work for all devices, but it you want you can use two 'optimized' images - the smaller ones for iPad1-2, iPhone and the larger ones only for the iPad3:

Source code
1
2
<plugin name="button" url="button_normal_100x50.png" ... />
<plugin name="button" url="button_retina_200x100.png" scale="0.5" devices="iPad+Retina" ... />



Ah yes, this is perfect. Designing the UI twice as big and scaling down doesn't produce nice and crisp icons & buttons, they get quite blurry to the trained eye of the UI designer ;-) . Not krpanos fault, just a fact when it comes to UI design. In order to have the UI look its best, designing both sizes is necessary.

Thanks Klaus!


You need to design both. But since the screensize didnt increase with ipad3, only the resolution, means you have more pixels per inch. Thats why it gets designed twice as big, but then scaled down. But true, scaling down either makes it blurry or AA gets mushed away I wonder if increasing the DPI in photoshop would help... or am I talking nonsense...?L(
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20

Donnerstag, 29. März 2012, 14:23

But true, scaling down either makes it blurry or AA gets mushed away I wonder if increasing the DPI in photoshop would help... or am I talking nonsense...?L(


When designing for the iPhone 4, It's best to design at 640x960 at 72dpi compared to 320x640 at 72dpi for standard display. I think this method works best for iPad retina too. Whereas the iPad 1 & 2 are both designed at 1024x768 at 72dpi, I'll now design for the new iPad at 2048x1536 at 72dpi.

*thumbsup*
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